Recap: Diversity in Agile twitter convo
Jun. 14th, 2010 01:33 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
rickscottLast weekend, a conversation about diversity took place on twitter between several prominent folks in the Agile and Testing communities. I think what was said needs to be archived for posterity, so I made a tool that helps do just that.
This is a straight-up transcript with no commentary. My response to some of the points that were raised is here.
- lanettecream: Posted-new blog-Diversity in Agile Project http://blog.testyredhead.com/2010/06/04/diversity-in-agile-project.aspx
Sat Jun 05 02:40:57 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @lisacrispin Thank you for your hard work and volunteerism. I'm happy that you are doing this work. I hope it goes well. :)
Sat Jun 05 03:09:17 +0000 2010- jbtestpilot: @lanettecream I can understand interest in the ratio of women in testing, but does honor & reward really encourage more to join the biz?
Sat Jun 05 05:07:42 +0000 2010- jbtestpilot: Request: can a "woman-in-test" explain to me how it feels to be honored & rewarded because of their gender?
Sat Jun 05 05:10:01 +0000 2010- jbtestpilot: @MauravdL I guess I need to hear more stories about that (being female working against you).
Sat Jun 05 05:21:43 +0000 2010- jbtestpilot: @dvndva Me, too. Fine if someone saw my passion for that and said so, but if they did *because* I was male, that'd be insulting.
Sat Jun 05 05:23:41 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jbtestpilot My point is, does it matter? A group of volunteers are doing something positive on a small scale. We will see if it helps.
Sat Jun 05 05:33:56 +0000 2010- jbtestpilot: Agreed! RT @reewal: It gives the impression that it's a great achievement to be able to test if you are a woman-which is quite insulting.
Sat Jun 05 05:36:20 +0000 2010- jbtestpilot: Agreed. RT @dvndva: yes, it is insulting to be pin pointed b/c of gender- it should not be a barrier or something that makes you stand out.
Sat Jun 05 05:37:12 +0000 2010- jbtestpilot: @lanettecream That's just it. I don't understand the positive aspect of this. Rewarded for what, exactly?
Sat Jun 05 05:41:46 +0000 2010- jbtestpilot: @lanettecream What if on the phone today they said: "You're a woman, you're hired. We need one of those to fill out our diversity ratio."
Sat Jun 05 05:45:16 +0000 2010- jbtestpilot: @reewal In relation to this: http://bit.ly/bqpCjI
Sat Jun 05 05:46:24 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jbtestpilot I was thinking, if all they do is get some team w/o women to ask themselves why, they have served a good purpose.
Sat Jun 05 07:34:31 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jbtestpilot Not possible in WA, there are no ratios. It is illegal. Not a real problem facing the workforce, unlike hiring same thinkingPpl
Sat Jun 05 07:37:09 +0000 2010- jbtestpilot: @lanettecream There are no women testers at Quardev. Dunno why. We interview all kinds of testers. Should we only interview women now?
Sat Jun 05 07:38:54 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jbtestpilot My point is that no one project is going to "fix this". The point is to give the women applying a fair chance, not a ratio.
Sat Jun 05 07:39:37 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jbtestpilot There aren't a huge number of women in software, so it may not mean there is a problem if you have a small # of testers.
Sat Jun 05 07:40:37 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jbtestpilot If you have had 50 women apply & hired none? Might want to look into why.
Sat Jun 05 07:41:05 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jbtestpilot I thought about this, and though for a second about being critical, then I realized this is volunteers doing what they can.
Sat Jun 05 07:42:56 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream In testing, I think diversity is a value in and of itself. Testers, like tests, benefit the project by being unique.
Sat Jun 05 07:43:50 +0000 2010- jbtestpilot: @lanettecream Doing what they can *to what*, is my whole question.
Sat Jun 05 07:43:55 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jbtestpilot If teams with women who apply that they never hire, or hire and leave even think about why and see women doing well on teams1/2
Sat Jun 05 07:44:01 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jbtestpilot That is enough to make this project worthwhile because it gets people thinking about why. 2/2
Sat Jun 05 07:44:28 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jbtestpilot It is positive that this team has a scope that is reasonable. They can't fix all of diversity or even all of women in tech. Ok.
Sat Jun 05 07:45:00 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach I agree. The different perspective will bring up different risks. Helpful to teams! Thought diversity is important.
Sat Jun 05 07:46:01 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jbtestpilot Doing what they can to show an example of women who contribute to agile teams is the scope, and while small I like it.
Sat Jun 05 07:46:43 +0000 2010- jbtestpilot: @lanettecream To show an example implies that it is a surprising/exceptional thing that needs pointing out. "Women in Agile, how novel!"
Sat Jun 05 07:49:49 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jbtestpilot Hmm. I just see it as some examples showing what is normal on teams, + recognition for some high performing women. No harm done
Sat Jun 05 07:51:41 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream @jbtestpilot As I read the website, the project has nothing to do with diversity, but rather power.
Sat Jun 05 07:52:15 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jbtestpilot It clearly doesn't fix all diversity issues and could use another title, but I don't see the downside myself.
Sat Jun 05 07:52:19 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach Yeah? Why is that? I didn't notice them talking about power and influence anywhere. Where is that?
Sat Jun 05 07:52:57 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream I'd like to see some more examination of diversity, but that would require acknowledging gender-related differences.
Sat Jun 05 07:53:04 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jbtestpilot My opinion is if you are going to criticize volunteers, you'd better offer a better alternative that you volunteer for.
Sat Jun 05 07:54:31 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream Search for the string "promote the empowerment of women"
Sat Jun 05 07:54:38 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach I would like to see that too in addition, but that is more specific & has a broader scope. We need more data on this topic.
Sat Jun 05 07:55:20 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream The site presumes the "gender imbalance" of agile teams. How is that balance calculated?
Sat Jun 05 07:55:22 +0000 2010- marlenac: @jamesmarcusbach Sounds like you really mean, let's re-inforce all of the stereotypes we've been programmed to believe by culture.
Sat Jun 05 07:55:34 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream How much do effeminate men affect the balance? Does it take two women to offset me?
Sat Jun 05 07:56:01 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach I believe it is calculated only by eyewitness accounts of ratio of women to men vs the general population.
Sat Jun 05 07:56:04 +0000 2010- jbtestpilot: @lanettecream Volunteers do all kinds of things I disagree with.
Sat Jun 05 07:56:42 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream That's not a calculation.
Sat Jun 05 07:56:50 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach I don't believe in assigned ratios, only in the opportunity for those with the talent, skills, and desire.
Sat Jun 05 07:56:53 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach How many things in testing are? Really, most of what we talk about at conferences is assumption & generalization, not fact.
Sat Jun 05 07:57:36 +0000 2010- jbtestpilot: @lanettecream @jamesmarcusbach A thread that criticized "Lessons Learned" on this topic, and Cem's answer: http://bit.ly/d0qB6W
Sat Jun 05 07:57:42 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream Still, somebody is making a judgment about "imbalance" and I'd like to see them be straight about the basis of that.
Sat Jun 05 07:58:25 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream Well, then how do we know there's any sort of problem, here? Maybe women just aren't cut out to make software.
Sat Jun 05 07:59:18 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jbtestpilot When was that data compiled. There is a huge trend away from any sort of balance. Thought diversity is suffereing. Pitbull.
Sat Jun 05 07:59:46 +0000 2010- marlenac: So who thinks we have enough cultural diversity in testing? Who thinks we need more?
Sat Jun 05 08:00:14 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream I'd like to see more women independent testing consultants, but I understand why there aren't. It's tough on the family.
Sat Jun 05 08:00:27 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach Do you imagine an equal ratio on agile teams across the software industry?
Sat Jun 05 08:00:45 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream Lanette, I wish you address the issue I raised. "Any sort of balance"? You are making a claim without warrant.
Sat Jun 05 08:01:14 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream Please don't refuse to answer questions about calculation, and then make claims based on doing a calculation.
Sat Jun 05 08:01:44 +0000 2010- jbtestpilot: @lanettecream Before 2001 when "Lessons" was published.
Sat Jun 05 08:01:52 +0000 2010- marlenac: I hope y'all watching the conversation between @jamesmarcusbach and @lanettecream. Is this really what the context-driven school is about?
Sat Jun 05 08:01:57 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream I haven't said anything about ratios. I'm asking about how you calculate balance.
Sat Jun 05 08:02:20 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach I was asking a question, not making a claim. My question is, do you think there is a balance currently?
Sat Jun 05 08:02:52 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach I did answer the question based on the proposal and it claimed NO scientific basis whatsoever. Only experiential data.
Sat Jun 05 08:03:26 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach I personally calculate diversity & balance only on opportunity. My concern is when anyone who thinks differently is banned.
Sat Jun 05 08:04:36 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream The short answer is I don't know. Also: I don't care. It's not my concern.
Sat Jun 05 08:04:57 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach Male or female, I dislike it when all team members must think alike to succeed on a team. Diversity is stronger.
Sat Jun 05 08:05:19 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream You didn't answer me about how the calculation. You are treating it as a data question. I'm interesting in interpretation.
Sat Jun 05 08:05:35 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach I disagree. You think very different than many. It is your concern. You are not the majority, although you are popular.
Sat Jun 05 08:05:56 +0000 2010- marlenac: Nice. RT @jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream The short answer is I don't know. Also: I don't care. It's not my concern.
Sat Jun 05 08:06:12 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: This is where we connect! RT @lanettecream: My concern is when anyone who thinks differently is banned.
Sat Jun 05 08:06:26 +0000 2010- marlenac: Let's just take testing back 20 years for women.
Sat Jun 05 08:06:29 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach I also believe you care about fairness for people with talent for testing, and for that reason want fair opportunity.
Sat Jun 05 08:06:46 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream One the nice things about "my concern" is that only I get to say what that is.
Sat Jun 05 08:07:28 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach Can you clarify the question? I thought you asked how this proposal (diversity in agile) calculated it.Did I misunderstand?
Sat Jun 05 08:07:46 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream Actually, I don't get excited by fairness. I get excited by serving worthy people.
Sat Jun 05 08:08:35 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach I know. I am assuming you care only because of past conversations. Feel free to correct my assumptions.
Sat Jun 05 08:08:48 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream I was wondering how balance should be reasonably calculated. I don't think the website addresses that issue at all.
Sat Jun 05 08:09:37 +0000 2010- jbtestpilot: @lanettecream I'm not criticizng volunteers, btw. I'm critical of their cause (i.e. measurement & identification of the perceived problem).
Sat Jun 05 08:10:05 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream Fairness is something that exists only within the context of the rules of specific games.
Sat Jun 05 08:10:21 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach It doesn't attempt to or claim to. All it does is highlight the success of a subset of women to show it is possible.
Sat Jun 05 08:11:25 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream Besides fairness, there are other things: empathy, service to others, karma, and those things can look like fairness
Sat Jun 05 08:11:29 +0000 2010- marlenac: I know that @lanettecream and @jamesmarcusbach are gonna end their conversation on good terms, but it's putting lipstick on the pig.
Sat Jun 05 08:11:34 +0000 2010- jbtestpilot: @jamesmarcusbach Same here. There are no women testers at Quardev, so what does it mean to have only "male" test ideas?
Sat Jun 05 08:11:48 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jbtestpilot As you know, I think it goes beyond a gender issue, and is a problem of thought diversity acceptance. Limited minds canBharmful
Sat Jun 05 08:12:50 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream I have more respect for people who expose and examine their underlying philosophy. I don't think this group is doing that.
Sat Jun 05 08:13:17 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach This group is doing something besides complaining. All they are doing is showing what is already happening. All win 2 me.
Sat Jun 05 08:14:09 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream I like that you keep bringing back to diversity. But I think that's more you doing that than this website.
Sat Jun 05 08:14:26 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach What I mean is they don't claim to be anything else or to do anything else. They show what is happening now, nothing else.
Sat Jun 05 08:14:40 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream I don't think they even TALK about what's happening now. They don't talk about what's happening at all.
Sat Jun 05 08:15:04 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach This website alone can't fix diversity, nor can one project. It may be totally unfixable, but progress is possible IMO.
Sat Jun 05 08:15:28 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream It's all hints and innuendo. They declare that there's an imbalance without engaging the meaning of that word.
Sat Jun 05 08:15:50 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach The whole point is to talk about with interview who is succeeding with gender diversity in agile teams right now, right?
Sat Jun 05 08:16:16 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream Progress cannot be possible if no one explains what progress is, or why it's progress.
Sat Jun 05 08:16:32 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach I agree that the goal could be more clear. What is "balance" to them? I have no idea based on the website.
Sat Jun 05 08:16:47 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream The whole point looks to me like boosting the power of certain women, not boosting diversity.
Sat Jun 05 08:18:00 +0000 2010- jbtestpilot: @lanettecream What a woman tester thinks of that a male tester can't (and vice versa) depends on the context. Diversity is not a given.
Sat Jun 05 08:18:27 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach I think my idea of progress may not match this project website.
Sat Jun 05 08:20:01 +0000 2010- jbtestpilot: @lanettecream You'r implying that ideas can be identified by gender. Women only have "female thoughts" and men only have "male thoughts"?
Sat Jun 05 08:20:10 +0000 2010- marlenac: jeez the bullshit-o-meter is just exploding...
Sat Jun 05 08:20:42 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream I featured you in my keynote speech specifically because you are the opposite of me in certain important ways.
Sat Jun 05 08:21:08 +0000 2010- marlenac: I used to think the context-driven school had at least some value. Now it seems like a steaming pile of sexist crap.
Sat Jun 05 08:21:14 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jbtestpilot I totally agree. Diversity is about perspective, not just gender. Consider different thinkers, not just external attributes.
Sat Jun 05 08:21:16 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream But we are also the same (or harmonious) in other, very important ways.
Sat Jun 05 08:21:28 +0000 2010- marlenac: and it's all happening L-I-V-E on twitter.
Sat Jun 05 08:21:59 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream I wasn't doing that to promote women, even though you being a woman was important to my decision.
Sat Jun 05 08:22:01 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jbtestpilot When did I do that? I don't agree with you on this. I do not think ideas are identified by gender.
Sat Jun 05 08:22:03 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream I was doing it because it maximizes the chance that people not like me will say "Hey, maybe I can do that!"
Sat Jun 05 08:22:37 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jbtestpilot This isn't just about testers. This is about overall team diversity for projects.
Sat Jun 05 08:22:38 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream By "not like me" I mean not like me in ways that don't touch upon the core issues of testing excellence
Sat Jun 05 08:23:22 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach I have been discredited because of my gender despite my experience and talent multiple times. I'm sure men have too.
Sat Jun 05 08:23:49 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach Because diversity is touchy, often people do nothing but complain about it. When I see some action, it is imperfect. Ok.
Sat Jun 05 08:24:54 +0000 2010- jbtestpilot: @lanettecream You said "There is a huge trend away from any sort of balance. Thought diversity is suffering."
Sat Jun 05 08:24:57 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream You can be a great tester if you are unbearded, short in stature, soft in voice, young, quiet, friendly...
Sat Jun 05 08:25:03 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach agile is meant to be iterative. I expect it to improve with time & experience. At least they are doing something.
Sat Jun 05 08:25:39 +0000 2010- AutomatedTester: @marlenac whats a good way to see this conversation? I only about 10 tweets from the conversation in tweetdeck
Sat Jun 05 08:26:07 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream Of course you have. They way we solve that problem is by making diversity less threatening.
Sat Jun 05 08:26:16 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jbtestpilot Yes! I am talking about the pitbull again. The trend is anyone not making/advocating for automation is unhirable/oldfashioned
Sat Jun 05 08:26:31 +0000 2010- jbtestpilot: @lanettecream It implied (to me) that the lack of thought diversity = lack of gender diversity.
Sat Jun 05 08:26:32 +0000 2010- marlenac: You can see the whole "let's be sexist but pretend we are not" mess if use twitter search
Sat Jun 05 08:27:11 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jbtestpilot I think lack of gender diversity is one small portion of lack of thought diversity, not at all the entire issue. 1 example only
Sat Jun 05 08:28:04 +0000 2010- marlenac: search.twitter.com -> advanced search -> from @jamesmarcusbach to @lanettecream Then when u get results, click "show conversation"
Sat Jun 05 08:28:39 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream I think we need to get to a place where we recognize that there are different kinds of men and women.
Sat Jun 05 08:29:17 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach I think the way to make diversity less threatening is to just try it. By that I mean give it a few chances.
Sat Jun 05 08:29:19 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream Actually, my brother and I have diversity issues between us. I sometimes want him to be more aggressive, like me.
Sat Jun 05 08:29:52 +0000 2010- marlenac: finally some value RT @lanettecream: I think the way to make diversity less threatening is to try it. By that I mean give it a few chances.
Sat Jun 05 08:30:31 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach So why I am supportive of anything that encourages others to give any form of thought diversity a try is that oftn itWorks!
Sat Jun 05 08:30:51 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream To try it means to deny work to someone. Remember that. Any choice to hire one person is to not hire someone else.
Sat Jun 05 08:30:57 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach Why? Don't you enjoy that he can reach some people that you might not reach because of his style? His positivity is lovely.
Sat Jun 05 08:31:57 +0000 2010- jbtestpilot: @lanettecream How do you know it leads to thought diversity? Again, an implication that women have female ideas and men have male ideas.
Sat Jun 05 08:33:07 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream Exactly. That's what I mean. We're two guys of extremely similar geneology, yet we make a diverse team.
Sat Jun 05 08:33:08 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream This is a key selling point for diversity... ready? Here it is:
Sat Jun 05 08:33:53 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jbtestpilot I don't. That is why I seek diverse approaches rather than a certain gender when staffing teams.
Sat Jun 05 08:34:29 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: Diversity in your team gives you access to, and therefore power over, more people and ideas.
Sat Jun 05 08:34:30 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream Here's an example of diversity: My team just hired an electrical engineer. Right away he helped me solve a huge problem.
Sat Jun 05 08:35:52 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach I'd say that it gives you insight into more people & ideas rather than power over, but that is my view.
Sat Jun 05 08:36:02 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream The first woman I hired at Apple had the ability to smile at the (male) developers who then gave stuff to us.
Sat Jun 05 08:36:29 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach I pair with my developers to learn, but I consider trading on sex to be icky (prostitution), I avoid that.
Sat Jun 05 08:38:31 +0000 2010- AutomatedTester: @marlenac whats the Site they keep mentioning?
Sat Jun 05 08:38:52 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream The ultimate protection that each of us has in a world that values diversity is to be UNIQUE, not class-protective.
Sat Jun 05 08:39:03 +0000 2010- marlenac: That's a shitty motivation.RT @jamesmarcusbach: Diversity in your team gives you access to, and therefore power over, more people and ideas.
Sat Jun 05 08:39:23 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream You can't control what other people (women or men) think about you. Just be competent and friendly and hope for the best.
Sat Jun 05 08:39:53 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach How is it more class protective for a group to point out success on a team than it is for you to mention me in a keynote?
Sat Jun 05 08:40:08 +0000 2010- marlenac: @AutomatedTester @lanettecream just wrote this post: http://bit.ly/d7g0Hv
Sat Jun 05 08:40:42 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach I don't say it to be unthankful, just because if we who are context-driven help eachother, are we not a class?
Sat Jun 05 08:40:42 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream I guarantee you every normal male who works with you is actively suppressing certain thoughts. That's just biology.
Sat Jun 05 08:40:56 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach I care what I think of me. If I stand by my ethics I am satisfied.
Sat Jun 05 08:41:07 +0000 2010- jbtestpilot: This is my point! "The ultimate protection that each of us has in a world that values diversity is to be UNIQUE, not class-protective."
Sat Jun 05 08:42:02 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream "Context-Driven" is not a class of the kind I'm referring to. Context-driven people are pluralists. That's a higher thing.
Sat Jun 05 08:42:22 +0000 2010- marlenac: and here's something that has no place in a public/professional conversation (next tweet)
Sat Jun 05 08:43:35 +0000 2010- marlenac: unaccepatable: RT @jamesmarcusbach: Every normal male who works with you is actively suppressing certain thoughts. That's just biology.
Sat Jun 05 08:44:05 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @marlenac You don't accept biology? Or just people admitting to biology?
Sat Jun 05 08:44:34 +0000 2010- jbtestpilot: @agiletesteruk That came from James, btw... :)
Sat Jun 05 08:44:40 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @marlenac Or are you saying you don't want them to suppress those thoughts?
Sat Jun 05 08:45:05 +0000 2010- marlenac: @jamesmarcusbach That has no place in a professional conversation. So you're saying you don't know that?
Sat Jun 05 08:45:08 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach How do we recommend people in our industry and bring attention to high performance w/o offending?
Sat Jun 05 08:45:30 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @marlenac It does and it must have a place. Do you not know that?
Sat Jun 05 08:45:31 +0000 2010- marlenac: @jamesmarcusbach That is the last thing on my mind when I'm testing and if I know my co-workers it's the last thing on theirs as well.
Sat Jun 05 08:45:47 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @marlenac In fact, that's what this conversation has been about.
Sat Jun 05 08:46:01 +0000 2010- marlenac: @jamesmarcusbach and that you would say that on twitter lets the world know that you feel it has a place in professional discussion
Sat Jun 05 08:46:24 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @marlenac If that's the last thing on your mind, then you have just learned something about diversity.
Sat Jun 05 08:46:45 +0000 2010- marlenac: @jamesmarcusbach that's sexist bullshit and you need to grow up if that's how you feel.
Sat Jun 05 08:46:52 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @marlenac If your co-workers on men, I GUARANTEE you that they aren't talking to you about this!
Sat Jun 05 08:47:15 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @marlenac Yes, I do think it has a place.
Sat Jun 05 08:47:31 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @marlenac It's not sexist bullshit. It's reality. I'm sorry it frightens you.
Sat Jun 05 08:47:56 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @marlenac It doesn't have to frighten you. You can get help for that.
Sat Jun 05 08:48:14 +0000 2010- marlenac: There you go ladies and gents @jamesmarcusbach admits on twitter that he promotes sexism in the workplace
Sat Jun 05 08:48:32 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach Is it a higher thing than being severely engineering biased or degree biased?
Sat Jun 05 08:48:38 +0000 2010- marlenac: Means racism is not far behind.
Sat Jun 05 08:48:41 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @marlenac But your extreme sensitive to this issue is not my problem.
Sat Jun 05 08:48:43 +0000 2010- marlenac: @jamesmarcusbach It is your problem since you've just said all this on twitter.
Sat Jun 05 08:49:23 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @marlenac @jamesmarcusbach It doesn't offend me. I was semi stalked via my office whiteboard last year, so I see some truth there.
Sat Jun 05 08:49:42 +0000 2010- marlenac: @jamesmarcusbach People look to you for leadership...we don't want to be divided. You divide us.
Sat Jun 05 08:49:53 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @marlenac What kind of moral authority do you have that makes it okay for you to tell me what is and is not professional?
Sat Jun 05 08:49:59 +0000 2010- marlenac: @jamesmarcusbach Unite us.
Sat Jun 05 08:50:14 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @marlenac I haven't divided anyone. This is your problem. You deal with it.
Sat Jun 05 08:50:42 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @marlenac I am leading. I'm doing what I think is right. If you think it's wrong, you'll have to make a better case than to spit venom.
Sat Jun 05 08:51:12 +0000 2010- marlenac: @jamesmarcusbach If you think this is my problem then your eyes are closed.
Sat Jun 05 08:51:15 +0000 2010- marlenac: @jamesmarcushbach Suggesting that you re-think your position.
Sat Jun 05 08:52:12 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @marlenac Yes, I think it's your problem.
Sat Jun 05 08:52:14 +0000 2010- marlenac: @jamesmarcusbach there's no making a case with your super-reasoning
Sat Jun 05 08:52:48 +0000 2010- marlenac: @jamesmarcusbach This is very disappointing and I know I'm not the only tester disappointed with this conversation.
Sat Jun 05 08:53:43 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream Well, I blocked her. Shame about that. We can't let fear keep us from talking.
Sat Jun 05 08:53:54 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream Yes, it is a higher thing than that.
Sat Jun 05 08:54:34 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @marlenac I don't think that is true. @jamesmarcusbach has been respectful to me in many work situations & is talking about gender issues.
Sat Jun 05 08:54:54 +0000 2010- marlenac: @jamesmarcusbach I'm not a woman at work. I'm a software tester. My co-worker is not a man at work, he's a software tester.
Sat Jun 05 08:55:09 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach Why? I think they believe they are the future of all testing and only those who agree will be part of testing.
Sat Jun 05 08:55:28 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream I'm glad you aren't offended. I'm not offended when people tell me they are working on their degree, for instance.
Sat Jun 05 08:56:20 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @marlenac You are still a woman every time you go to the office according to most people. So am I. This is why we need to work on diversity.
Sat Jun 05 08:56:34 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream Even though I think college degrees are nonsense and part of a conspiracy to crush true education.
Sat Jun 05 08:56:44 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream Yes, we do believe that we are the future. We believe we are right about testing. But why do we believe that?
Sat Jun 05 08:57:29 +0000 2010- marlenac: @lanettecream Yeah but I'm not thinking "HEY I'M A WOMAN" while I'm testing.
Sat Jun 05 08:57:32 +0000 2010- marlenac: @jamesmarcusbach seems to think I'm supposed to be wearing a pink apron and serving cupcakes. Ridiculous.
Sat Jun 05 08:58:03 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream We believe that because we have embraced pluralism and humanism while rejecting incompetence.
Sat Jun 05 08:58:15 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @marlenac Me neither, but you do realize when you are introduced to a new team they see you as "woman" before "tester"? Most likely?
Sat Jun 05 08:58:31 +0000 2010- marlenac: @lanettecream and saying that he thinks diversity is a means to power over others???? Come on. That's bullshit.
Sat Jun 05 08:58:45 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream When I say it's a "higher thing" I mean that it is not a specific set of beliefs about testing practices or skills.
Sat Jun 05 08:58:52 +0000 2010- marlenac: @lanettecream So what?
Sat Jun 05 08:59:39 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach I read a blog last week that stunned me. Why is balance so unpopular? I like automation when used w exploratory testing.
Sat Jun 05 09:00:16 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream Instead, CDT is an ethic of epistemic humility.
Sat Jun 05 09:00:25 +0000 2010- marlenac: @lanettecream I fail to see how "I am a woman" is part of a software testing discussion. It's assuming something about the def. of a woman.
Sat Jun 05 09:00:30 +0000 2010- marlenac: @lanettecream like there are certain rules to being a woman.
Sat Jun 05 09:00:47 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @marlenac So that is why I am happy that there are some projects giving visibility to the success of women still.
Sat Jun 05 09:01:06 +0000 2010- marlenac: @lanettecream I really have no interest in how @jamesmarcusbach defines the term "woman" because my guess is it would make me want to barf.
Sat Jun 05 09:01:25 +0000 2010- AutomatedTester: @lanettecream @marlenac thats a huge stereotype. I work with a good female dev and I think her a dev before a woman
Sat Jun 05 09:01:28 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach Some people argue that it is laziness & vanity that we aren't trying to discover new ways to automate instead.
Sat Jun 05 09:02:21 +0000 2010- marlenac: @lanettecream I think @jamesmarcusbach was more critical of that effort because of his personal history with the women involved.
Sat Jun 05 09:02:22 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @AutomatedTester There are exceptions. I didn't mean to lump everyone together. That was generalized.
Sat Jun 05 09:02:54 +0000 2010- marlenac: +1 RT @AutomatedTester: @lanettecream @marlenac thats a huge stereotype. I work with a good female dev and I think her a dev before a woman
Sat Jun 05 09:03:03 +0000 2010- marlenac: Glad to see there's some sanity on twitter after all. Thanks very much @AutomatedTester
Sat Jun 05 09:03:31 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream No one I respect makes such arguments, and I think that's because there is no reasonable argument for that.
Sat Jun 05 09:03:42 +0000 2010- AutomatedTester: @lanettecream in my team, that is the norm rather than the exception. Perhaps I am lucky in the environment that I work in
Sat Jun 05 09:04:09 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @marlenac @AutomatedTester I wonder if that is why she is successful as a dev. No one thinks of me as a tester first that I know of. Girly.
Sat Jun 05 09:04:30 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach Why is it distasteful to promote any good work to you? Even if not complete/perfect, if it doesn't claim to be?
Sat Jun 05 09:05:36 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @AutomatedTester The principle scientist I know (first one) who is female has short hair and doesn't wear makeup. Coincidence? Not to me.
Sat Jun 05 09:06:38 +0000 2010- marlenac: @lanettecream People think of me as someone who is about to rip their code to shreds.
Sat Jun 05 09:07:05 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @AutomatedTester People treat me with more respect when I wear my glasses. Is that coincidence? Am I acting smarter with them on perhaps?
Sat Jun 05 09:07:39 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream I don't understand your question. Was that a question?
Sat Jun 05 09:08:01 +0000 2010- AutomatedTester: @lanettecream I grew up in South Africa so know how stereotyping can negatively affect people. Picking people on anything but skill is awful
Sat Jun 05 09:08:20 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @marlenac I want people to think of me as someone who is about to make their code much stronger and the team reach goals in a specific way.
Sat Jun 05 09:08:27 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach Yes it is a question. Why the agile diversity project a problem for you? What is the issue?
Sat Jun 05 09:09:44 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: Wow. I was accused of being sexist today! The year must be 1975.
Sat Jun 05 09:10:12 +0000 2010- marlenac: Sorry guys...yes I went a little crazy. With good reason. I might blog. Just hate writing reactive posts.
Sat Jun 05 09:10:48 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @AutomatedTester I believe most people THINK they pick only on skill, but research shows otherwise. We like people who are like us naturally
Sat Jun 05 09:11:31 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream The issue for me is that they, unlike you, don't seem to be promoting diversity. They are "empowering women."
Sat Jun 05 09:11:53 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream And that is actually and truly sexist. Not that I mind. But I wish they'd grapple with diversity itself.
Sat Jun 05 09:12:44 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach That is true, but I guess my expectations are that there is no way a few people can make diversity happen anyways.
Sat Jun 05 09:13:13 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @jamesmarcusbach Diversity AND it's sister idea: pluralism
Sat Jun 05 09:13:36 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach So I am glad that they are upfront with what they aren't trying, and I hope we get a retrospective on the results.
Sat Jun 05 09:13:42 +0000 2010- AutomatedTester: @lanettecream well in my office we aim for the top 10% of developers out there so naturally pick on skills. Like I said, maybe I am lucky
Sat Jun 05 09:13:52 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: Pluralism means learning how to live with people who aren't like you and also don't belong to you.
Sat Jun 05 09:14:33 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach I see this as something they are trying, and an iterative process, not anything else.
Sat Jun 05 09:14:43 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach Isn't being context driven about trying to do what will have a positive impact given the current context? Not the ideal?
Sat Jun 05 09:16:00 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream Okay, well, I can respect them for that.
Sat Jun 05 09:16:18 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @AutomatedTester How do you judge the top 10%? 10% of what?
Sat Jun 05 09:16:29 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream It's good to have conversations like this, once in a while. But notice, there are also casualties.
Sat Jun 05 09:16:53 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach I did comment on what would empower me. It would be a job, but I'm working on that. :)
Sat Jun 05 09:17:19 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach Other people told me that hiring wasn't a problem (for them) that parenting was. Ok. I get that.
Sat Jun 05 09:17:49 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @lanettecream Yes, though that's not ALL it's about. It's also a humanistic community that focuses on skills.
Sat Jun 05 09:18:01 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach True. I will be on skype more. Maybe a private chat is in order on some of this stuff. I get that it is about skills& value
Sat Jun 05 09:18:40 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jamesmarcusbach Oh dear, it's after 2am and I'm going out to breakfast. Thanks for the chat. I'd better run!
Sat Jun 05 09:19:14 +0000 2010- marlenac: @benklaasen Thx. Ur retweet means a lot. :o)
Sat Jun 05 09:19:22 +0000 2010- AutomatedTester: @lanettecream What they have done in their time before applying. Do they like OSS, have their contributed to other things like blog? 1/2
Sat Jun 05 09:20:32 +0000 2010- AutomatedTester: @lanettecream When they do test automation is it record/replay or coding it. Most people 90% in our location don't fit that. 2/2
Sat Jun 05 09:23:14 +0000 2010- AutomatedTester: @lanettecream we do not care if people have degrees or not. The best dev I know doesnt have a degree. "Walk the walk, talk the talk"
Sat Jun 05 09:26:19 +0000 2010- jbtestpilot: @SimonSaysNoMore Which risk is that?
Sat Jun 05 10:20:55 +0000 2010- michaelbolton: @AutomatedTester You said "I work with a good female dev and I think of here as a dev before a woman". Note you SAID "female" before "dev".
Sat Jun 05 13:06:05 +0000 2010- michaelbolton: @AutomatedTester Also, you said /good/ female dev. Would you precede male with "good"?
Sat Jun 05 13:07:11 +0000 2010- michaelbolton: @AutomatedTester Please note that I'm NOT accusing you of sexism. Instead, I'm pointing to ways in which we may subconciously categorize.
Sat Jun 05 13:09:11 +0000 2010- michaelbolton: @marlenac Who I am influences me as a tester, for good or ill. Man, Canadian, white, English major. I'm biased, *sometimes* aware of it.
Sat Jun 05 13:15:00 +0000 2010- michaelbolton: @marlenac Recognizing who I am (and how I'm different from, say, you) helps me to manage my biases.
Sat Jun 05 13:16:24 +0000 2010- AutomatedTester: @michaelbolton i didnt do that subconciously. I was re-enforcing /that/ point that was part of the argument. Normally I wouldn't prefix sex
Sat Jun 05 13:42:34 +0000 2010- AutomatedTester: @michaelbolton i hate the diversity argument because it labels people. People are either good or bad at their job.
Sat Jun 05 13:44:43 +0000 2010- AutomatedTester: @michaelbolton They could be a pink teletubby for all I care. I have one label that I care about. "Developer in Test" is my label
Sat Jun 05 13:45:32 +0000 2010- michaelbolton: @AutomatedTester I don't hate the diversity argument. I desire diversity, because it's one way to help manage my biases.
Sat Jun 05 14:10:34 +0000 2010- michaelbolton: @AutomatedTester Diversity talk is trickier for people from South Africa or the U.S. than Canada because of respective history. Agree?
Sat Jun 05 14:12:31 +0000 2010- michaelbolton: @AutomatedTester On my team, I want people who are good at their jobs in different ways. That, it seems to me, requires differences.
Sat Jun 05 14:13:14 +0000 2010- AutomatedTester: @michaelbolton wholeheartedly agree... perhaps we need to describe sex/race diversity differently to skills/perspective diversity
Sat Jun 05 14:15:35 +0000 2010- michaelbolton: @AutomatedTester I live in Toronto, where diversity is manifest; one of the world's most multi-cultural cities. (1/2)
Sat Jun 05 14:21:44 +0000 2010- michaelbolton: @AutomatedTester Interesting problem at a client not here: Virtually no women or visible minorities on the test team. A question:... (2/3)
Sat Jun 05 14:23:08 +0000 2010- michaelbolton: @AutomatedTester Was diversity absent, or just invisible? I concluded that it was severely limited; very risky for a test team. (3/4)
Sat Jun 05 14:24:44 +0000 2010- michaelbolton: @AutomatedTester But it being where it was (somewhere in America), it was deemed a topic unfit for discussion. I see a problem there. (4/4)
Sat Jun 05 14:26:17 +0000 2010- AutomatedTester: @michaelbolton My wifes employer (an orchestra) wants the players race to diverse. Should we drop quality to meet targets or should we (1/.)
Sat Jun 05 14:31:27 +0000 2010- AutomatedTester: @michaelbolton get talented people who make things sounds good? Bringing in minorities doesnt guarentee new thoughts and bringing in (2/.)
Sat Jun 05 14:33:14 +0000 2010- AutomatedTester: @michaelbolton different sexs doesnt guarantee it either.Getting people with new ideas is always king & shouldnt matter on race or crede 3/3
Sat Jun 05 14:34:34 +0000 2010- michaelbolton: @AutomatedTester A FABULOUS story about JUST this in Gladwell's book /Blink/. The AFofM now requires a screen between auditionee and hirer.
Sat Jun 05 14:38:00 +0000 2010- marlenac: Thanks all for the supportive dm's. Here's my post on gender and diversity in testing: http://bit.ly/duIbZ1
Sat Jun 05 15:13:26 +0000 2010- AutomatedTester: [Blog] What is your Label? Male, Female or IT Professional? - http://bit.ly/bEGWE9
Sat Jun 05 15:27:57 +0000 2010- AutomatedTester: @michaelbolton Here are my thought >140 chars http://bit.ly/bEGWE9
Sat Jun 05 15:29:14 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @karianneberg I don't know. I'm trying to stay in myself & get a job, encourage the most skilled women to stay in after layoff. Up 1, 2left.
Sat Jun 05 16:11:49 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @karianneberg Why do females only count if they are devs? Let them do they work they find satisfying. Forcing everyone to think the same sux
Sat Jun 05 16:14:08 +0000 2010- lanettecream: Argh. Only males think diversity problems will "naturally work out" with no effort despite the fact they never have. Look at the results.
Sat Jun 05 16:21:06 +0000 2010- lanettecream: It isn't how the industry is "perceived" when women leave. It's how the industry IS right now. It is not equally supportive to all people.
Sat Jun 05 16:22:40 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @karianneberg I find that pretty expected & ok, so long as the women who want to code have the opportunity.
Sat Jun 05 16:30:31 +0000 2010- AutomatedTester: @lanettecream forcing diversity hasn't worked out either. its a double edged sword
Sat Jun 05 16:37:17 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @karianneberg I think we can help women get experience & realize that experience is not skill. If the woman has the skills-a chance wd help
Sat Jun 05 16:38:30 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @AutomatedTester Not talking about forcing diversity. Just not blocking it unintentionally.
Sat Jun 05 16:39:04 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @AutomatedTester There is a lot of room between no action and forcing a quota. Look at other options in the middle.
Sat Jun 05 16:43:01 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @YvesHanoulle I'm hoping that some men on agile teams will nominate women based on skill & talent.
Sat Jun 05 16:45:16 +0000 2010- michaelbolton: @AutomatedTester I agree that it shouldn't matter. Yet I think we'd be crazy to deny that who we are influences what we do and how we do it.
Sat Jun 05 16:48:13 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @YvesHanoulle I would like to, but I didn't have other women on my agile team.
Sat Jun 05 17:19:28 +0000 2010- michaelbolton: @emarley I'd dare say that anyone, male or female, who is completely free of any bias (including gender bias) is abnormal.
Sat Jun 05 18:41:19 +0000 2010- michaelbolton: @emarley Indeed it is impossible to address sexism without acknowledging gender differences.
Sat Jun 05 18:43:18 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @emarley It's normal in a sense. In another sense it's not. I don't consider it a problem, if that's what you mean.
Sat Jun 05 21:54:34 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @emarley If your plan is to only work around men who are homosexual, you could probably make that happen, in some industries.
Sat Jun 05 21:55:21 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @emarley I assumed we're talking about the the tech industry.
Sat Jun 05 21:55:52 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @emarley I could have said "normal heterosexual male" but would that have really clarified anything that needed clarifying?
Sat Jun 05 21:59:31 +0000 2010- michaelbolton: @karianneberg To me, that's a great way to handle sexism: those who reject your services capriciously don't deserve them; their loss.
Sat Jun 05 21:59:42 +0000 2010- michaelbolton: @karianneberg Note that she DOES work somewhere else. We don't have to work for everyone; only one employer at a time.
Sat Jun 05 22:00:24 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @emarley I'm a little surprised that saying that men are keeping themselves under control around women could possibly be considered sexist.
Sat Jun 05 22:01:51 +0000 2010- michaelbolton: @jamesmarcusbach Perhaps a misunderstanding: ALL people are keeping themselves under control around ALL OTHER people.
Sat Jun 05 22:03:12 +0000 2010- jamesmarcusbach: @michaelbolton Yes. But some people are harder for some people to be controlled around than other people.
Sat Jun 05 22:05:31 +0000 2010- michaelbolton: @lanettecream Gentle, but pointed tease: ONLY males think that? And NO males think otherwise?
Sat Jun 05 22:40:58 +0000 2010- jbtestpilot: RT @Godtesen: @jbtestpilot nope not necessary to consider "women in testing" we are testers just like the other half of the group :-)
Sat Jun 05 22:43:05 +0000 2010- jbtestpilot: @lanettecream I think that's a sexist comment, but I understand your emotion and know you better than that, so I won't take it personally.
Sat Jun 05 22:47:52 +0000 2010- jbtestpilot: @lanettecream RE: "only males" -- I've heard from 4 *women* in 24 hours who think "Women In Agile" is unnecessary.
Sat Jun 05 22:55:08 +0000 2010- jbtestpilot: @dckismet Just log into Twitter.com and look at their sites.
Sat Jun 05 22:57:28 +0000 2010- marlenac: @hogfish Thanks. If nothing else, than has taught us about the limits of twitter.
Sat Jun 05 23:02:45 +0000 2010- marlenac: . @michaelbolton was confused by my post so I left a comment. I hope it clarifies: http://bit.ly/duIbZ1
Sat Jun 05 23:04:00 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @michaelbolton in the Twitter conversation this am it appeared that way. Not feeling glad I participated in this one. Feeling tricked.
Sun Jun 06 02:17:00 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jbtestpilot I meant in the twitter conv at one moment not overall.
Sun Jun 06 02:18:01 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jbtestpilot only males in the conversation this morning. Keep in mind the diversity in agile project is started by a man.
Sun Jun 06 02:19:35 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jbtestpilot do those women think nothing at all is needed, nothing for women, or something but not this?
Sun Jun 06 02:20:42 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @YvesHanoulle I have worked with many women, but I'm new to agile. Less that 1 year on an agile team.
Sun Jun 06 03:36:35 +0000 2010- jbtestpilot: @lanettecream The implication was, "treat me like a tester, my gender is irrelevant"
Sun Jun 06 03:55:23 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jbtestpilot I hope to see the day that is totally true. I just don't believe we are there yet.
Sun Jun 06 03:57:04 +0000 2010- jbtestpilot: @lanettecream My favorite perspective on this so far has been tweets by @MauravdL. She's local & I hope to introduce you 2 one day.
Sun Jun 06 03:58:28 +0000 2010- michaelbolton: @lanettecream Maybe a pause for processing all around will help. I'm sympathetic to the cause, but I see double standards too. Tricky.
Sun Jun 06 04:00:57 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @michaelbolton Great idea. I'll take the night off. Happy Saturday. I'm off to watch a movie. :)
Sun Jun 06 04:04:13 +0000 2010- michaelbolton: @emarley @jamesmarcusbach My observation was that pointing out that there's oil in the gulf apparently makes you BP.
Sun Jun 06 04:10:17 +0000 2010- michaelbolton: @deanrcornish Does gender have influence on perceptions, assumptions, worldview, biases, predispositions? I mean /influence/, not destiny.
Sun Jun 06 04:14:47 +0000 2010- jbtestpilot: @cowboytesting How does an inequity in pay change "the work experience", in your opinion?
Sun Jun 06 04:45:23 +0000 2010- jbtestpilot: Here is @MauravdL with a pitch-perfect, balanced response to me asking her about the women & diversity issue: http://bit.ly/cw3v24
Sun Jun 06 06:20:15 +0000 2010- jbtestpilot: 3 women blogged abt gender context in testing; my turn: http://jonbox.wordpress.com/2010/06/06/context-male-female-or-na/
Sun Jun 06 08:41:59 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @MauravdL @jbtestpilot This topic is too complex to discuss clearly on twitter. I'd be interested to hear your take in real life though.
Sun Jun 06 16:35:49 +0000 2010- jbtestpilot: @lanettecream Blogged about it last night. Got a few responses.
Sun Jun 06 17:25:28 +0000 2010- lanettecream: @jbtestpilot I commented as well. I also wrote something more private on WAT.
Sun Jun 06 17:46:30 +0000 2010- jbtestpilot: Blog activity: commented on comments: http://bit.ly/9xTqSB
Sun Jun 06 20:36:47 +0000 2010